The Practicum The Practicum
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與生活館創辦人周思中先生對話(第一章)

Sam: Mr. Sam Ng (吳志森先生)

Chow: Mr. Chow Sze Chung (周思中先生)

 

Sam: 我想問周思中、你如何界定自己的身分呢?你是一位農民、博士生、是一位社運人士、是一位保育人士、你覺得自己是甚麼人?
I would like to ask Chow Sze-chung how you define your identity.  Do you define yourself as a farmer, a PhD candidate, a social activist or a conservationist?  Who do you think about yourself?

Chow: 由我們開始辦生活館開始,我猜我或我們都把自己的身分朝向農夫或農民走,但可能未算是一個百分百及格的農夫。
Since we started Sangwoodgoon, I guess I or we have been moving towards the identity of a farmer, but we may not be a fully qualified farmer.

Sam: 未算是百分百及格?怎樣才算百分百及格呢?
Not a fully qualified farmer?  How can someone become a fully qualified farmer?

Chow: 我們不是百分百吃農作物,因為我們本身開始耕田前,都各自有自己的工作;有些人是教師,主要是教師,有些人從事藝術創作等。其實生活館從開始到現在,一方面我們學耕種,同時我們在學習如何把另一部分的工作,與田裡的工作好好結合與協調。
We are not consuming 100% of the crops we produce, because before we started farming, we have our own work.  Some of us or we were mostly teachers, some engaged in artistic and creative work etc.  In fact, since the set-up of Sangwoodgoon, we have been learning farming while learning how to incorporate and integrate perfectly our lives into farming work in the field.

Sam: 現在正朝著這方面走?
Have you been moving towards this direction?

Chow: 其實走了好幾年。
Yes, and in fact, we’ve been moving forward for several years.

Sam: 但是你認為還未到一個完滿的境界?
But you don’t think you have yet to reach a perfect realm, do you?

Chow: 未到很完滿,但其實一直在進步。一年四季都能好好管理農田,能夠出產農作物,更是用一種對環境好的方式。加上我們想做到的,不只是種菜作買賣,而是希望以食物作為媒介,令大家能以食物和食物與土地間的關係形成更緊密的社群。
Not very perfect, but we have been progressing indeed.  We can manage our farmland to produce crops all year round, and it is a good way to the environment.  Coupled with what we want to do, we don’t simply grow and sell vegetables, but we also make use of the food as a medium to bring people and food as well as food and land together to form a closer community relationship.

Sam: 我知道你農民的生涯始於一個社會運動,叫反高鐵菜園村運動。重建後你就成為了農夫,你能告訴我們你轉變的來由嗎?
As I know your farming life began in a social movement called the anti-high-speed railway in Choi Yuen Village.  After the reconstruction of the village, you became a farmer.  Can you tell us how and why you made the change?

Chow: 其實很簡單,那時候我們護村,原因是我們認為建高鐵是大白象(工程),內含許多官商勾結等等的問題。另外一個重點是,我們由衷地覺得菜園村村民的生活,以前或現在村民都告訴我們,他們在外面的確有自己的工作,但他們在自己的家、自己的田地,也有一部分的工作,而這部分的工作像電路般,有助他們生活。以農作物、食物的方式,我們覺得這是好事。不應該因為高鐵撥款開始興建,便忘記我們是因這種生活方式,而覺得要保護這條村和這種生活。所以我們開始想到,與其單單欣賞他們的生活,不如我們自己也一起做。沒可能說他們的生活方式很好,而它正在消失。因此我們十分痛惜,但又不願親力親為建立這種生活。
In fact, it was very simple.  When we were protecting the village, because we found that the construction of the high-speed railway was a white elephant (project), in which there were uncovered deals between businesses and the government.  Another reason was about the villagers’ life we deeply felt.  Both current and previous villagers have told us that they do not only have their own work outside, but they also have their work in their own home and fields.  This part of the work is just like a circuit to help them sustain living by means of crops or food.  We felt it was a good thing.  We should not forget this lifestyle because of the initial construction of the high-speed railway after the funding had been approved.  We believe we should protect the village and this way of life.   We then began to think about putting it into practice rather than simply appreciating their lives.  It is not reasonable to let this disappear while it has been actually a good way to live.  We felt upset but we didn’t seem to be really willing to develop this way of life in person.

Sam: 你希望實踐這種生活?
Do you want to put this in practice in your life?

Chow: 對,所以由零開始。因為一起協辦生活館的朋友是百分百的城市人,所以是由零甚至負數開始。整件事要重新該怎樣說呢?要把城市人的習慣偏好偏見改掉,然後才能做下去。
Yes, so we started from scratch because the friends establishing Sangwoodgoon are 100% people from the city.  We then started from none, or even from negative value.  How should I describe this?  I would say we try to get rid of all bias and prejudice before we can continue.

Sam: 你一直以來都是四體不勤、五穀不分的人?   
You didn’t really exercise much or know anything about any crops, did you?

Chow: 差不多。別看我皮膚黝黑,不是因為我很喜歡遠足,而是天生皮膚黝黑。   
More or less, don’t think my tanned skin was due to the fact that I like hiking.  On the contrary, my tanned skin colour is inborn and natural.

Sam: 原來如此。所以其實你完全不了解農業?    
So it is, and in fact you don’t know much about agriculture at all?

Chow: 完全不懂。  
No, not really.

Sam: 我看過你過往的經歷,反高鐵菜園村就是有關土地運用的問題、城市規劃的問題。現在就跳到個人圈子裡;與另外一群人耕田,有自己的小天地,你覺得對個人來說這是前進或是後退?還是前進中有後退?後退中有前進呢?    
I have seen some information about your experience; the anti-high-speed railway movement in Choi Yuen Village was about the use of land on the issue of urban planning.  Now jump to talk about your individual life.  Farming with another group of people, you have your own space.  Do you think it is moving forward or backward in terms of an individual?  Or moving forward with little backward?  Or moving backward with little forward?

Chow: 後者的說法比較適合。因為老實說,人們會問現在我們耕田是不是會有高調的口號,或覺得我們要改變世界,又或者我們要反轉世界,我覺得我們現在不是以這為宗旨。但我認為前進的部分是,原來開始學耕田後,好像有幾道門為我們而開。那幾道門告訴我們,如果要做到一些改變,改變要從哪裡開始。耕一塊田其實有很多意味,如果我們想一直耕種,農夫就在中間,一邊是泥土和生態,另一邊是客人和接受農作物的人。其實這樣的關係一定要做得好,或者像俗語所說,要是一個可持續的關係。這樣的農業才有意思,而不只是農產品的買賣。達成這件事的過程會變得很慢和很小,但我覺得效果會影響深遠。對於客人或我們自己來說,所有的學習和意義都會刻骨銘心;包括星期天菜檔的小朋友,我們由他兩歲的時候認識,到現在四五歲。由以前不敢說話害怕昆蟲,到現在會很開心,自己帶來水鞋泥鏟等小工具,回到學校又會裝作懂得很多農業知識。如果你問我,我小時候沒有可能對土地有感覺,因為我們遠離它,我們沒有實際經驗、身體經驗。現在我們這裡有田,他們星期天會來走走、會來玩。他們會有機會看到,對土地有益的作法是怎樣的。他們幾歲開始便會接觸(農耕),我們現在規模很小,但希望耕耘這層土壤,他們也算是土壤。    
The latter idea fits better our situation.  Frankly speak, people may ask if we have a high-profile slogan in the farming practice, or they think we want to change the world, or to overturn something.  However, I don’t think we target for these purposes.  I think the forward part is when we began to learn farming, it seemed there were several doors open for us.  The doors told us where we should start if we want to make changes.  In fact, there is a lot of meaning in farming.  If we want to practise farming continuously, it’s like the relationship that the farmer is in the middle while one side is the soil and ecology, and the other side is the customers and those receiving our vegetables.  In fact, this relationship must be maintained well so as to become sustainable.  This kind of agriculture is meaningful, not simply the trade of agricultural products.  The process of reaching this outcome may be very slow and negligible, but I think the effect is far-reaching.  For the customers and ourselves, all the learning and meaning will become impressive and unforgettable.  For example, some kids have been coming to our farms from two years old to currently four or five years old.  From the past when they didn’t use to talk and they used to be afraid of insects to nowadays they are very happy, and bring their own water shovels and other small tools to play there.  They even go back to school and pretend to know a lot of agricultural knowledge.  If you ask me, when I was young, I didn’t have particular feeling towards farmland because we were far away from it, and we had no practical or physical experience.  Nowadays we have fields here; they will come to experience and play on Sundays.  They have the opportunity to see what is beneficial to the farmland.  They begin to know more (about farming).  We are now in very small scale, but hope to cultivate the farmland and the kids.

Sam: 剛才我很深刻記得你提到一個名詞,要有起步點,有了開始的一點才能前進。以前的人通常有偉大的理想,或者是偉大的空想,今天可能要腳踏實地,在起步點開始走,看看能走多遠就走多遠。    
I’m impressed with the phrase you’ve just mentioned, that is there must be ‘a starting point’ before we can move forward.  People in the past usually had great ideals, or great fantasies, while today they may be down to earth, start to move forward from a starting point, and see how far they can go.

Chow: 沒錯。    
Right.

Sam: 就是這樣對吧?    
That’s it, isn’t that?

Chow: 對。    
Yes.
Submit Date
2017-09-20
View Count
1310

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